Dr. James Canton: Surrogate robots are only one part of the extreme future that is coming over the next decades. We will have many different types of synthetic humans, both autonomous and tele-robotic, the surrogates controlled by humans. This emerging Blended Reality that the movie captures challenges us to consider that technology will be developed first to heal or fix people and then to entertain, engage and enhance human experience. When you mix these different entities, some more robotic or synthetic with humans, a new type of co-evolution of our civilization and even our species will be the end game. New choices but also new risks. Who will be considered in charge? More human than humans?

Q: Randall, what is the one part of the body most difficult to create a prosthetic for?

Randall Alley: I would have to say the organs, specifically the holy grail of prosthetic replacement, which would be of course the brain. But with regard to the body parts most commonly considered for prosthetic replacement, the hand is way up there in terms of its natural capabilities and hence its complexity. For many decades we have had good success with lower limb prosthetic replacements, and while there is still of course room for improvement, the greatest disparity between human and prosthetic function has been with regard to the upper limb. Our hands are amazing and truly difficult to functionally replicate, both in terms of appearance (statically and dynamically) and dexterity or manipulation. This is why DARPA chose to fund programs designed for upper limb advancement as opposed to lower limb. They felt the lower limb prosthetics were pretty good at what they do, while the current upper limb technology fell far short. What biodesigns and Deka Research are attempting to do is to utilize currently available technology (eg off the shelf) to create the next generation of upper limb prostheses. This project is called the Luke Arm project as named by Dean Kamen in honor of Luke Skywalker of Star Wars fame.

Q: Dr. Canton: Could the situations evoked in the film one day become real?

Dr. James Canton: Yes, the situations, even the drama between lifestyles of human and robotic could become real. We are closer to the world of the Surrogates then people realize. My book published in 2007 The Extreme Future forecasted this reality. The movie is a bit ahead of today, but this cybernetic future is coming.

Q: Randall, could the situations evoked in the film one day become real?

Randall Alley: They most certainly could, but to what degree is the real question. It is occurring and will occur in stages and in different areas of research and development. Artificial limbs, skin substitutes, controllers will all be developed at different rates and with different goals in mind. It will be those who assimilate these technologies into a single package that will create the first “surrogates” that approach what you see in the film.

Q: Dr. Canton, in the business context, what do you think that is more valuable an efficient machine or an efficient human?

Dr. James Canton: For business there are jobs that are ideally suited for humans and increasingly for smart machines. So I view the future as co-evolutionary, meaning we will need both humans and machines to function: manage cities, security, health care, finance. Simply put, the increased complexity of our world will demand smarter machines for our society to survive.

Q: Something philosophical: Do you agree or disagree that the human identity is bound to the body?

Randall Alley: I think for now, and for most, yes, it is very much bound to the body. However, many amputees for example have adjusted to their missing limbs and the prosthetic technologies that attempt to replace them become a part of their identity. They recognize that despite their “artificiality” they are an extension of themselves. Taking that further you then get into remote control of objects that we as a human race will begin to identify with and give personalities to until finally, as in the Surrogates, though the characters understand they are real human beings, they begin to identify more closely with their counterparts.

Q: Dr. Canton, you mention not being far from the world we see in the film. Still, it does seem like we’re still quite a way away from this complete form of “virtual” life. How far away are we from this sort of reality?

Dr. James Canton: If you consider that immersive Web 2.0 technology with force feedback where you can sense and feel digital experiences online, in what I call a Blended Reality, then the world of the Surrogates is not as far away as you think. Virtual worlds are exploding, but tele-robics, human operators operating virtual and physical robots is real.

Q: Randall, in the business context, what do you think that is more valuable an efficient machine or an efficient human?

Randall Alley: Why that depends on what business you are in. Those business processes that require automation will of course speak for the efficient machine, while those that require the human touch so to speak will identify more value with the efficient human. I for one believe the efficient human is still on top of the pyramid. It will be interesting to watch the level of the efficient machine rise.

Q: Dr. Canton, could the situations evoked in the film one day become real? In that case, what do you think would occur?

Dr. James Canton: One day, in the near future, due to exponentially accelerating technologies will enable humans to interact with feeling streamed emotions from other cybernetic or robots, it will change everything. We are on the verge of this world. Streaming sensations and emotions back to humans, though tame today, will be intense as a pervasive experience tomorrow.

Q: Dr. Canton, how would the existence of artificial human bodies change the law? Would there be more anarchy on the streets?

Dr. James Canton: The existence of artificial human bodies is today’s reality. Today we have synthetic hips, hearts, limbs, hearing and sight. But tomorrow when humans are downloaded into robotic beings will require new laws to recognize these new citizens. Will they have rights to self-awareness and evolution, the very idea of what a human is will change. Human enhancement and soon robotic enhancement, will redefine the Post-Human, not all of this will be positive.

Q: Can you tell something about the distance between the current status of technology and the artificial substitution of the whole body with prostheses?

Randall Alley: One of the main thrusts of the DARPA programs, with which biodesigns is involved, is the replication first of human function, and then both human function and human appearance. Two projects are currently underway utilizing two different endgame scenarios. The first is designed to see how far we can get to with current technology that can be purchased off the shelf. This system will be a strap on and go system designed to utilize more degrees of freedom than are currently available. The second project is far more ambitious, and will attempt to mimic the human arm and be capable of submersion. Both projects could be considered for direct brain interface control.

These are very ambitious and expensive projects and still only deal with the arm. Other areas of research deal with artificial intelligence, brain interfacing,etc. are all in various stages of development. To rise to the level of total body substitution is a large leap yet to be attempted and quite a ways off. Mimicking the body will occur long before total body replacement technology will, though we do have individuals utilizing all four limbs for functional use.

Q: Dr. Canton, how far away do you think we are from downloading our actual consciousnesses into an avatar that we can then send out into the real world to act as a surrogate for us, in a similar situation to the film?

Dr. James Canton: If you are one of the millions of people that are using virtual worlds like Second Life or playing interactive video games like Halo, then you have a sense of this future. It is immersive, pervasive and seductive. Though the download of human consciousness seems outrageous, when you are facing death or disease, this choice will not seem so strange. Humans will enhance and transform themselves, this is social evolution but with the tools of nanotech, biotech, neurotech and quantum tech, we will, I would forecast, be downloading minds within 30 years.

Q: Mr. Alley, in a world like the movie suggests, when nobody would care about his real body, would there be a chance to be a successful fitness trainer?

Randall Alley: Interesting question. The likelihood would be that the individual controlling the surrogates would be in great need of a trainer, having been hooked up all day to the system and not getting any vital exercise. Come to think of it, that happens now with a lot of individuals who stay connected to the internet for example all day. So, yes, unless there exists a machine substitute, trainers will still be in demand.

Q: Do you think when surrogate technology is mass producible, will it only be available for those that can afford it or do you think it will become a mass technology readily available for anyone at consumer friendly prices?

Dr. James Canton: Surrogate technology will be at first, like most expensive leading edge innovations like space tourism, be for the affluent. But with an emerging mass market, supply and demand economics will take over and provide Surrogate type upgrades to all for the right price. Think about all tech, more buyers, less cost. In a world driven by Moore’s Law where every tech power is increasing every year or so, the possibility of Surrogate tech is getting closer.

Q: Do we really need surrogates? Are they real help or just “for fun”?